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User talk:CraigTC

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CraigTC, welcome to Plane Spotting World

If this is the first time you've used a wiki you may have a few questions. Most of the answers are obvious. To learn to edit, why not just dive in? At the foot of the editing window there is a help link. This opens in a new window and gives you a good overview of wiki syntax and stuff.

If you would like some introductory help, look at being adopted by an experienced user

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  • Respect other people's Copyright
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This is not an encyclopedia. Pages here do not need to comply with encyclopaedic notions or citations or neutrality. Just dive in and start.

It's always worth having a look at Control tower every so often, too.

One of the first things you might want to do is to place {{talktome}} at the top of your talk page (this page) above this welcome message. Taking heed of what it says will make it much easier for you to follow discussions on talk pages.

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Welcome to PlaneSpottingWorld. Please get stuck in. Theres lots to do. Ask me if you need any help and read the tips above this for info on how to get stuck in. Can I ask what your main interests in aviation is? Tbo 157 23:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. I'm a refugee from Wikipedia who is in the process of possibly leaving WP due to IP harassment and the inability/unwillingness of higher-ups there to recognize differentiate between who actually does the hard work on their site, and who tries to destroy it. Sad to have to go after over 20,000 edits, but oh well! I'm a member of the WPAVIATION project there, and so am into pretty much everything to do with aviation. I've talked to Tim there about this site (tho I don't know his username here), and I hope I can be of help. I'd like to start out by copying articles I've worked on at WP here, and also trying to help get our templates running so the WP pages will work right when copied. I do alot of work with formating articles, but not in trouble-shooting templates (no coding work), so someone else will have to make the coding adjustments.
Finally, what is "stuck in"? - CraigTC 08:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello CraigTC,
Tim's name is Tim Trent (talk · contribs), however he's not that active at Planes at the moment. Myself and Tbo are the main sysops, me also being a b'crat.
Please do whatever you can to improve the wiki. As i'm sure your aware, we have no active users, no community, no nothing. Please bring your friends from WP!
If you bring in pages from WP, please add {{From Wikipedia}} to the talk page, for legal/GFDL reasons.
Finally, by get stuck in, we mean just do what you want to make this wiki grow!
If you need more help, please contact me on or off wiki.
BG7 11:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, please do start copying your aticles from wp and make this wiki your own. We want a friendly community of users here who work as a team to make this wiki grow. We are trying to distance ourselves from the overly bureaucratic and formal processes at Wikipedia. We hope you enjoy your time here and that you will tell some of your friends about us as we desperately need a community. Our sister project, TrainSpottingWorld has just about gained a community so this is what were aiming for at the moment. Tbo 157 12:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


Hello CraigTC (may I call you Craig?),

Just wondered if you would like to be an admin on here. Your'e the only active user who specialises in Planes, so it might help you on your travels through wikidom.

Theres no formal process yet, but I reckon I can trust you.

Please let me know!

BG7 20:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

That would be fine with me! I've never held adminship on a wiki before, so I may have some questions, but it would definetly be of help in adding new aritlces and updating existing ones, particularly with page moves over redircts and the like. Thanks alot! Btw, I'm trying to setle in and get a feel for how things ae done here, and then I'll be talking with other WP users about checking PSW out. I have mentioned it to an active WP admin, who also has a lot of programming experience - he's one of the primary designers of the various templates WPAIR uses, and could help out a lot in that area, even if just as an occasional troubleshooter. - CraigTC 20:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
18pxY DoneOk, enjoy your new admin rights! If you need help, just let me know either on my talk page or by email.
Please do invite more members! Don't point-blank advertise, but do suggest it to members. We attracted members at Trains by mentioning it in AfDs etc, and also when users were getting fed up with WP (that's how I arrived!)
If this admin arrives, please tell him if he want admin rights, WP admins can have them automatically, even when RfA is online - we dont base it on silly edit counts etc, just Trustworthiness mainly!
Also, we're hoping to re-enable IP editing soon, as i am just finishing an Anti-Vandal bot. That will hopefully bring more users!
Please contact me for more info!
BG7 21:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks much! IP editing? Uh, I'd rather not see it, especially since I'm fleeing WP for IP abuse from a user dynamic IPs, who never did register, to my knowledge. But that's just me. Having admin tools would help me if such a situation were to develop here, and there may be other options availabe too that WP couldn't use. - CraigTC 21:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, our registered users are always more important than IPs! Also, in the past, weve just gone with straight with indef blocks for vandals.
We'll see how it goes though. Currently my AntiVandal bot it VANDALISING instead of undoing vandalism! BG7 21:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
You may also be interested in setting up some Planes:Workforces which are the equivalent of WikiProjects. For example ypu could have a Workforce:Fighter Jets or Workforce:Boeing etc. Anything you want. Tbo 157 21:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, please do.
Also, while i'm thinking about it, do you want to subscribe to The Transport Journal, the weekly newsletter?
BG7 21:48, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I had a quick browse,a nd will be checking back later as I get adjusted here. I'm also thinking about the workforce, and may try out some things int he next few weeks. - CraigTC 22:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, go for it! Like i said, at the moment, your the only active user who knows what there on about, so do what you want! Thanks, BG7 17:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Copyright questions

Are there any differences in how SpottingWOrld operates concerning copyrights and legal issues? WP is under US law, and SW is under Britsh law, so is there anything a WP user coming here should watch out for or be mindful of? - CraigTC 22:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

sworld:SpottingWorld:Copyrights summarises it quite well. You need to follow the UK Crown copyright laws and your local copyright laws - so if you are in the USA, the copyright laws of the USA as well as UK copyright laws. If in doubt just ask. Tbo 157

{{From Wikipedia}} is cured

It is rippling through the system. It takes a while to update every instance of the template.

We picked up a few other things on the way. The new user period, for example, ought to be implemented now

Tim Trent 23:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

The Job Queue

In case you wonder when you change a template why you can't see it in the articles it is transcluded into, Special:Statistics holds the answer. Look at the job queue. If this is >0 then your template changes are made, but the ripple effect is held up in the queue.

That queue works very badly indeed! It requires the site to be busy, because every page view takes some jobs off the queue. It will not empty when the site is idle! Some design, huh?

Tim Trent 09:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. If I change anything I shouldn't, do let me know. I'm mainly trying out some minor tweaks, but I've also imported/updated the Navbox template. I'm really in over my head in doing that. However, I'd like to get the templates/navboxes going as soon as possible, since they are on most of the articles, and bad or redlinked templates ares not a good way to get return visitors, in my opinion. Anyway, anychange I make can be reverted, so I can't damage anything permanently. - CraigTC 10:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Don't be unduly concerned about "change anything I shouldn't." The main thing is to test changes to templates in the preview screen, since saving them swamps the job queue if they are imperfect , and resaving them simply adds the next change sequentially into the queue. We can end up with a larger queue that we have articles very easily.  :) It's not that the size of the queue actually matters, it does get emptied in the end, but it can often make you wonder why a change hasn't yet appeared. Tim Trent 10:34, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I'll just add this is also another reason to invite your friends here and get them to edit!
It also encourages the rest of us to check here more often (which will happen now things are getting moving - it's been nearly a year since the site was born, and we don't even have 1000 articles yet! Trains has 3k and is (nearly) on the main InterWiki map, used by wikipedia amongst other!
BG7 15:12, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

On testing Templates, I'll do that from now on. It was just easier to try one change last night than to set up a test template. Now that I understand the queue problem (at least that there IS a problem!), I'll make sure to test changes from now on.

No problems. Or you can just not test, but make page views and edits that dont go on the job q to clear it.

On 1000 articles, I can probably fix that in a day or two! According to the main PSW page, we have 944 right now, and I have plenty of articles to add to help fill in some major gaps.

That's great! The more articles we get, the better. Let me know when and what the 1k article is!

Also, is there a single page that lists all the red links? That would give me a good snapshot of what non-articles are linked to from real articles, and I can begin to fill in those (aircraft-related) gaps.

Off the top of my head i think its Special:Wanted pages, but if not it'll be in Special:Specialpages.

As to inviting other WP memebers, I'm in a tough position on that right now. I can't mention in the open on WP that I am here in any way, as my stalker reads everything I write, and so I have to use the "e-mail me" feature, which not all editors have activated, to talk about PSW. I have mentioned PSW to about 6 good editors, and am considering more that would be good people to help get this going right. - CraigTC 18:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Who's the stalker? (I'll have a look, plus if he arrives here, don't worry, we'll block him. We're nice about that! Any users you can get will be welcomed with open arms. And if you want them to be admins just ask me, tbo or Tim, were all b'crats! Are any of these editors going to pop in? (Not meaning to be rude, but we really do need users/editors/viewers, not least for the job queue!)
I've commented/answered within. BG7 19:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Some advice

Just a note that as this site is not an encyclopedia but more a reference for fans or anyone interested in researching here or just general reading, as well as encyclopedia content, we also allow you tube videos or any other videos as long it doesn't violate copyright, spotting reports and maps etc.

I got that. Is there a particular reason you're mentioning that now, such as my doing something that you feel is "too encyclopedic"? All I am doing right now is trying to improve the WP articles that were placed here last March, upgrade them with more current content. I'm trying to make sure they work as currently constituted, such as filling in the red links, as well as fixing the templates. Where the "community" goes from here is up to the "community", once it gets here! Personally, I think "encyclopedia-quality" articles can co-exist with pages covering other content, but I think it would be a mistake to mix them too much. That, though, is up to you guys, and to the community that develops. I'm just going to do what I know how to do, and the result will look encyclopedic, I hope. Once other editors start editing, then I'll adapt to what emerges as the community concensus. And, of course, I'll follow whatever is handed down to from you and Tim. If that clashes with y'all's vision of PSW, then please let me now, before I get in too deep. I certainly don't want to spend hours improving articles in a direction you don't want to go!
My experience with You-tube from WP is that "most" of the aircraft related videos are copyvios, usually from documentaries and such, tho I am sure there are a number of amatuer videos there as well. - CraigTC 22:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Dont worry, its just some friendly advice :). Theres no real clear vision for this project. SpottingWorld is what you want it to be. Just go with what you think. Just continue what you're doing. There is no such thing as being too encyclopedic or too fan site like etc so don't worry about that. Remember although Tim is the founder, his comments are worth only as much as any other spottingworld user's comments with the exception of legal issues and advertising. In other words Tim is an ordinary user - being founder doesn't make him any great dictator unlike Jimbo from WP. Thanks. Tbo 157 22:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
OK< thanks for the clarification. We've both covered our bases well enough that there shouldn't be any misunderstanding! - CraigTC 01:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Planes talk:Workforces

Hi Craig,

I've finally got around to replying to your posts on the Workforces page - my i just mention though that some may be more suited to the terminal (our new discussion area) than that page!


BG7 17:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Looks like there was a garble. I meant get rid of Buffalo, which was never the official name. I'm happy with "Brewster F2A", the maker & ID. I'm gonna try moving. If I can't, will you? Ghostrider2 22:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Succeeded, & made a few edits in the process. BTW, thanks for importing it. You saved me doing it... Ghostrider2 23:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Updating articles

Keep up the good work on this man. -Finlaycj 16:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)